After a brief conversation last night with Mona and Kristy about social media being silo-ed into marketing or customer service, I was feeling frustrated interested in the general consensus on social media was for the non-PR/Marketing folks.
Mona believes that is and should be utilized as a customer service tool, and as a public relations practitioner…well, I disagree. But, because I’m open to listening to argument, and checking out a different perspective (in case I just happen to be wrong, which may or may not happen more often than I’d like), I looked for a second opinion that I thought would echo her position, or at least coming at it from a customer service background — I turned to Frank.
If you don’t know Frank, you probably don’t have Comcast . He is probably the most famous customer service manager in the US and, if not, the world. His proactive outreach and response time to his customer’s feedback is unreal. He’s an inspiration.
So, being lucky enough to have a relationship with him from Gnomedex, I reached out to see if he backed Mona.
E-mail from me to Frank:
Question: I’m arguing with someone about social media being silo-ed into customer service or marketing. As the pioneer of social media consumer service, I’d love your opinion. Do you agree that it’s solely customer service or that it can’t be silo-ed into either one? Can it exists in both spaces? Social media in it’s rawest form, meaning two-way communication, can that be marketing?
Frank’s response:
It requires customer service, marketing, PR and HR all working together.
Succinct, to the point, and supported my argument. But, I wanted more. If I was taking this into e-mail, I wanted his opinion in more than 140-characters. And without me pinging, he followed up with additional insight.
Trouble with marketing is they speak at customers and PR spins. Service is the only area that is used to two-way conversation.
Okay, I did NOT back that. As a marketing/PR/communications professional I pride myself in providing the truth, and I’ve never once used “PR spin.”
I don’t think that’s ALWAYS true [meaning that service is the only two-way conversation]. Brand/reputation management allows in the two way conversation. At least the way that I roll it does.
Did I just say “the way I roll” to Frank Eliason? Yes, yes, I did. And he responded promptly, as any good customer service rep would.
There are some outside the box thinkers in both marketing and PR, but in general this holds true in most organizations. If you watch, very few that work straight from the PR or marketing side have been successful. The ones that have, linked to service on the back end (I think of JetBlue). If you look at Dell they tie in Marketing and PR, but many of the people within their team come from areas such as service or support.
Okay, I’ll stop interrupting and just let you read the dialog. It’s kinda long, but I think you’ll dig it. Or at least have your own opinion.
I’m in green from here on out and Frank’s in blue.
When looking ALL of social media we can’t look at the Dells, and no offense, we can’t even look at the Comcasts. You have MADE the space. It’s more how other brands are reflecting on what they’ve learned from your company’s efforts.
Are they getting it?
Are the people that are running a brand’s online outreach too “old-school” PR/Marketing to understand that it’s not a broadcast platform? And if they are they utilizing it as brand management AND customer service? Are they pulling in other branches of the company (like HR, advertising, promotions, etc) to fully use the space?
There is no right or wrong, IMHO. It’s just if companies are using it as broadcast then it’s not social. We know that. Social = two way. I get that. I just don’t think it’s fair to silo something so fluid into one space. It will stunt the growth of what it could be down the line.
Again, as I mentioned, I think @Jetblue has done a nice job from a PR perspective. I also like how Southwest has conveyed their culture within social media. I have not found many strong that came at it from the marketing side of the house.
I agree, sort of, but that’s kind of an unfair comparison. Jetblue and Southwest are in the business of customer service. They get a TREMENDOUS amount of complaints. So what about the brands (say food/beverage/tech/etc) that don’t get those kinds of complaints?
The brands that are trying to get love from the people. Doesn’t that require more of a marketing platform to propel the social media outreach forward? And if customer service comes into play, or if they proactively look for complaints AND try to combat those issues, then they’re doing both, yes?
It does require listening and engaging, even on the positive but this is usually best done by others, which may be motivated by marketing. A good example of this would be Coke’s fan page on Facebook. It was done, and maintained by passionate brand advocates that do not work for Coke. Coke does support it though. I think if you do too much on the positive side, even trying to engage people to show the support, it does not come across as natural or authentic.
I agree it’s got to be driven by your customer base to be real. Their opinions matter and influence the brand. They absolutely should. Think smaller scale here, though. What about small companies that don’t have an online/social media presence (or at least a much smaller one) that are trying to make waves. They HAVE to come at it with a PR/Marketing background to justify the ROI, right? Then they build brand ambassadors, or advocates by proactive outreach (or customer service).
Smaller companies should work to become the knowledge leaders on their topic. I would not speak much on the brand or own products. Instead I would listen, and find how to become the knowledge person in the space. This is subtle marketing. I would have brand on Twitter page, but concentrate conversation on thought leadership and discussion with potential customers.
What will happen is people in conversation will look at their page and know the brand they represent, but if they are not seen as pushing a sale at all, when the time comes they will have built trust. Trust Agent!!! Radian6 does this pretty well.
I couldn’t argue that. Frank is a customer background, and it works for his business. As a PR professional working for different types of accounts, I think customer service is certainly a part, but not ALL of it. What do you think?
Okay, I’ll stop interrupting and just let you read the dialog. It’s kinda long, but I think you’ll dig it. Or at least have your own opinion.
I’m in green from here on out and Frank’s in blue.
When looking ALL of social media we can’t look at the Dells, and no offense, we can’t even look at the Comcasts. You have MADE the space. It’s more how other brands are reflecting on what they’ve learned from your company’s efforts.
Are they getting it?
Are the people that are running a brand’s online outreach too “old-school” PR/Marketing to understand that it’s not a broadcast platform? And if they are they utilizing it as brand management AND customer service? Are they pulling in other branches of the company (like HR, advertising, promotions, etc) to fully use the space?
There is no right or wrong, IMHO. It’s just if companies are using it as broadcast then it’s not social. We know that. Social = two way. I get that. I just don’t think it’s fair to silo something so fluid into one space. It will stunt the growth of what it could be down the line.
Again, as I mentioned, I think @Jetblue has done a nice job from a PR perspective. I also like how Southwest has conveyed their culture within social media. I have not found many strong that came at it from the marketing side of the house.
I agree, sort of, but that’s kind of an unfair comparison. Jetblue and Southwest are in the business of customer service. They get a TREMENDOUS amount of complaints. So what about the brands (say food/beverage/tech/etc) that don’t get those kinds of complaints?
The brands that are trying to get love from the people. Doesn’t that require more of a marketing platform to propel the social media outreach forward? And if customer service comes into play, or if they proactively look for complaints AND try to combat those issues, then they’re doing both, yes?
It does require listening and engaging, even on the positive but this is usually best done by others, which may be motivated by marketing. A good example of this would be Coke’s fan page on Facebook. It was done, and maintained by passionate brand advocates that do not work for Coke. Coke does support it though. I think if you do too much on the positive side, even trying to engage people to show the support, it does not come across as natural or authentic.
I agree it’s got to be driven by your customer base to be real. Their opinions matter and influence the brand. They absolutely should. Think smaller scale here, though. What about small companies that don’t have an online/social media presence (or at least a much smaller one) that are trying to make waves. They HAVE to come at it with a PR/Marketing background to justify the ROI, right? Then they build brand ambassadors, or advocates by proactive outreach (or customer service).
Smaller companies should work to become the knowledge leaders on their topic. I would not speak much on the brand or own products. Instead I would listen, and find how to become the knowledge person in the space. This is subtle marketing. I would have brand on Twitter page, but concentrate conversation on thought leadership and discussion with potential customers.
What will happen is people in conversation will look at their page and know the brand they represent, but if they are not seen as pushing a sale at all, when the time comes they will have built trust. Trust Agent!!! Radian6 does this pretty well.
Nice post.
My view is that the distinction between marketing, PR and customer service is bogus. They’re all customer service rolls.
Another thing, it has a lot to do with small companies trying to grow versus established companies dealing with customers. It’s a lot easier for established companies to be “social = two way” than new companies who have the pressure of getting the word out about their business.
Still need to blog about this, but the gist of my stance is this: Why not mesh PR/mktg/sales/CS all into customer EXPERIENCE?
Mona, you’re absolutely right. However, the problem is that in a big company there still has to be a division of roles. How would you divide them? What are the essential tasks? I think by considering the essential tasks it will be easier to understand how to divide the roles.
As Frank pointed out, at most companies, marketing and PR are accustomed to broadcasting. Customer service and sales are more in tune with *listening.* However, at the end of the day, every department in the company exists to serve the customer.
Scott Porad made a great point in his comment regarding smaller/newer companies. They have to focus on getting the word out (marketing) while trying to listen along the way. It’s not easy, even though their names aren’t out there in the “social media sphere” like JetBlue or Comcast.
Thank you so much for sharing the insightful convo between you and Frank. It was really great to hang out with him in August for SMC Seattle and Gnomedex.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by SMCSeattle and JessicaRandazza, JessicaRandazza. JessicaRandazza said: Conversation with @comcastcares about social media as customer service or marketing is live http://bit.ly/4FkreX – check it out! cc @mona [...]
I can’t follow a recipe to save my life. I’m always substituting something for something else, or just plain forgetting to add something. But, I actually think my improvisational nature comes in handy for me when it comes to social media planning and engagement.
To some extent, social media engagement is always going to depend on the organization, the reach of the brand and several other factors. By the way, social media engagement doesn’t necessarily mean talking to people online… it can mean making content or web-based products that are easily shared amongst others, or simply using online discussions for intelligence gathering. I think several brands that want to “talk” to me on Facebook are just as interruption-oriented as an old school radio ad, but I digress.
Searching for a one-size-fits all approach is the mistake. Asking where social media belongs is the wrong question. Frank found a natural synergy between customer service and social media at Comcast because there was clearly a need – he started responding to people who were already talking. That’s what every company should be doing – searching for the existing need for what they have to offer – not trying to squeeze in “engagement” on a prominent social network.
Asking which silo (if any) should own social media is the wrong question — what do people want from us? What do people need from us? How can we connect with the people who want and need what we have to offer? Where are those people? What are they saying? Those are the same questions every company should ask. The answers are not always easy and neither are the solutions – most companies are tweaking strategy and ownership as they go along, but those who seek to apply a formulaic approach built on rules of engagement and strict ownership won’t be nimble enough to stay the course of real relationships. Real relationships evolve, ya dig?
What I mean to say is that social media should be about customization NOT mechanization.
What I mean to say is that social media should be about customization NOT mechanization. It’s a lot more like raising a toddler than baking a cake. At least for now… that could all change
Scott – that’s why it’d make it easier to “silo” (I say bucket) Social Media into “Customer Service”, where retention/satisfaction #s are more “important” than conversion / metrics
Shannon – I love your mind. I’ll respond via blog post!
GREAT GREAT GREAT. Great post Jessica, Great POV Frank and Great POV Shannon. As with any type of engagement, SM needs to be customized to fit the need. For some orgs it’s Customer Service, others a great Marketing tool and still others an amalgamation of both. Orgs need to adopt it as it FITS their needs and not go blindly into the fray. As Shannon said, there’s no real recipie. Just guidelines that hopefully work for you.
Scott, I also agree it’s a much different platform for small business than it is for large corporations. So what Shannon said I totally back: social media should be about customization NOT mechanization.
To back up just a step. Social media is a tool, not a corporate responsibility. There’s no reason the tool can’t be adopted by any corporate department if used properly and respectfully — customer service, brand development, sponsorships, HR, internal comm, marketing or sales.
I agree with all the comments, especially Steve’s. Zappos is the perfect example and represents the ideal scenario. Teach all your employees how to use the space and encourage them to be there. I do believe there needs to be an area that can coordinate items that an employee can not handle. So if they are in discussion with someone and there is a Customer Service concern, they can send to a central area that can see if gets to the right department for assistance. Same if the person they are talking with as a HR issue or anything else that may be outside their scope. I hope this makes sense (have not had as much coffee as I did when Jessica emailed me yesterday).
Frank
Really good post and I mostly agree with Frank. As I have written on several occasions Customer Service and Marketing must lead your social media efforts but everyone in the company plays a part… If you’re interested, check out a recent post on this topic..
The conversatoin is taking place everywhere and the good news is, I feel, we’re all reaching the same basic conclusions.
John
Excellent conversation, both within the post and extended by the comments. Very useful for those of us working with clients who feel pressure to dive into SM, but don’t really understand why or to what benefit.
And Shannon, I will often quote this line from you: “It’s a lot more like raising a toddler than baking a cake.” As a toddler raiser and cake eater, I say you couldn’t be more spot on.
Chris